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Kara Goucher on her way to a runner-up finish in the 10,000 at the 2007 USA Outdoor Track & Field Championships in Indianapolis.

Interview with Kara Goucher

Posted on August 28, 2007, Interview conducted August 26, 2007

Reported by Parker Morse

One day after winning a surprise bronze medal at the 2007 IAAF World Track & Field Championships in Osaka, Japan, Kara Goucher spoke to a small group of reporters. What follows is a transcript, more or less, of that group interview.

You said last night in the mixed zone that you're a bit of a track geek, huh?
I'm a total track geek. I follow all of the events; I just love track and field. I'm just a huge fan of the sport in general, so this is incredible for me to be here.

And you're hanging out with fellow track geeks.
Oh I've been a nerd all week, getting to know the people from the other events. I'm like, 'I know what their PR is in the high jump.' It's awesome just to be here. I love the sport and it's been an incredible experience.

Outside of distance running, what would be the event group you're most interested in?
I love the sprints; I love Sanya Richards and I love the quarter. I wish I could run that fast. Growing up, I idolized Flo Jo and Carl Lewis. [Laughs] I always wanted to be a sprinter, but I wasn't fast. But I really like and appreciate it all. Especially being at this meet, I've come to appreciate the field events more.

What was your first event when you went out for track?
The first time I ran a track race was in like the sixth grade; I ran the 440. It was just a field day, we had an 'Olympic Day' and my boyfriend was winning. I had to pass him and it was really traumatic. I didn't [formally] run track until seventh grade, when I ran the mile and 800, so right away I started running longer stuff.

On her preparation for the conditions:
We knew it was going to be hot here. It kind of surprised me to hear everyone saying, 'Oh my gosh, it was hot!' It's something that went into our preparation; we knew it and we prepared for it. We did the best we could. Like I said, I wore the sauna suit—which is basically a glorified garbage bag—and we came here 10 days early and trained in the heat of the day. I did a time trial at the time that my race would be. I was uncomfortable. It's not like I was like, 'Oh, I was acclimated, it was easy.' I was prepared for it; I knew it was going to feel uncomfortable, but I knew I'd be able to push through it.

It was uncomfortable, but it was uncomfortable for everybody. I honestly wasn't worried about it. My biggest worry was making sure I was plenty hydrated, more hydrated than normal. Aside from that, I was here to race.

On the first 5,000 of her 10,000m race:
It was really rough; I was surprised at how rough it was. I don't like running out in lane two; I like to sit on the rail and let everyone else mess around. But because it was so rough, I ended up moving out into lane two, because I felt like there was a possibility of going down. It was one of those situations where I kept hearing a lot of people going, 'Uhhh! [Noise of pain or frustration]' and getting frustrated with the fact they were getting elbowed. I would get an elbow and I would give one, but I didn't let it bother me. I was like, 'I'm not going to get tense.' My goal was relaxation for as long as possible. I was like, 'I'm not going to break that over some elbows.' It was really bunched and aggressive.

On people falling during the race:
I knew that people were going down and I knew shoes were coming off. I didn't realize it was [eventual winner Tirunesh] Dibaba who had gone down. I knew people were getting in the mix but I was so focused on staying in contact with the leaders that I wasn't aware of who was going down or who was having to stop. I knew that stuff was going on, I just didn't know who it was.

You seemed to be in the front group even early on. Was that by design?
Oh yeah. My coach [Alberto Salazar] and I felt like I was ready to run with the best in the world, and we wanted a top-five finish. On the bus ride over last night, Alberto said, 'I know you're ready to be in the top five and anything can happen. You could get a medal.' Every race I run really well, and then I doubt myself for a few laps, and then I finish really strong. This time I was like, 'I'm going to press the whole way, and if I blow up, I'll probably finish the same as if I ran conservatively and kicked really well. I was just going to stay with the leaders as long as I could.

Were you aware of the pace?
No. I never heard a split, I never looked at the clock.

Was it difficult to hold back and not push the pace? Was it comfortable to run that pace?
It was really slow but honestly, I was thinking, 'This is good because the heat is going to get to everybody. The slower it is, the more I can stay relaxed. Then when it does break, I'm going to have made it farther and they're going to be feeling the heat more.' I don't know, just psychologically I was thinking, 'This is good for me.'

On when the race broke:
I was getting elbows and when I looked ahead, the top three were strung out a bit and they were all running on the rail. I thought, 'You know what? I'm just going to go up there because I won't be getting elbows and it just looked so much cleaner up there.' Once I got up there, my confidence started growing because I was like, 'Here I am in second and third and I feel great. I can see on the [jumbotron] that it's starting to string out a little more.' Alberto always tells me, 'When you're succeeding, it's easier. You're more likely to stick your nose in there when you're succeeding. If you have to move around the whole pack, it's different than if you're right there.' Every lap I got a little bit more confident, more confident, more confident and just hung in there.

On the point, with about 2,000m to go, when the pace increased further:
That was where, mentally, I had to decide to risk it. Normally I would say, 'This is fast, back off, save it for the kick.' And I said, 'No. Just go for it. If you rig, you rig, but at least you'll go down going for it.' That was a big moment for me in my running, where I just made the commitment to go.

On whether she was aware that Jo Pavey and Kim Smith were also in the lead pack:
I knew they were with me and I could see them on the screen. We kind of bunched together and I knew they were right off of me. I was trying to stride out and maybe break one of them. I didn't know how they would finish, but I was definitely starting to get tired. I was really tired with three laps to go—my head was really hot, I was breathing hard—but I wasn't finished yet. I kept saying, 'Just stride it out; maybe it'll break one of them.' I just kept pushing, and pushing, and pushing.

Had you raced either of them before?
Yeah, I'd raced Kim [Smith] in Liege last year, and I've never raced [Jo] Pavey. I've watched her race many times.

It seemed like you guys were going more at each other and up front they were almost coasting a little bit. So actually, with 500 [meters] to go, coming up that straightaway, you pulled wide and started to go pretty [well] and you closed the gap.
You know, it gave me confidence that [Kim Smith and Jo Pavey] were there, because I know my PR is the same as theirs—it's actually a little faster—so instead of thinking, 'I can't believe I'm running for third or fourth at the World Championships!' I was thinking, 'I can run with these people.' It gave me confidence that they were still there. I think all three of us were [going] all out; we were all on [the edge of] being broken.

On using her arms on the last lap:
Yeah, I've worked on my arms, especially in the past year, and I know they still need to get better. Alberto has always talked to me about my arms, but then last year at U.S. Nationals I got second. When I saw the video, I don't know what I was doing. Lauren [Fleshman] was all like this [demonstrates Lauren's arm swing, which is long, pushing back, like a sprinter], opening up in the last 200, and I was all here [demonstrates a sort of short swing with her arms completely in front of her, as if she was leaning on ski poles or a bike's aero bars, not swinging her arms much at all]. Ever since then, it finally clicked with me and I've been working on it. It's still hard, because I've been running this way for [a long time].

On what she was thinking the last 400 meters and the last 10 meters:
The last 400 meters, I almost resigned myself to fourth place. I was so tired. I kind of moved out and Jo [Pavey] went and I couldn't get around her. I thought, 'Fourth is really good, this is amazing.' And then we came around the corner and started to head down the backstretch and I just...I don't know. All of the sudden, I started thinking, 'I'm going to regret this for the rest of my life if I don't make an attempt.' Sometimes when you're running really well, like fourth would have been great, right? It would have been amazing. And sometimes you kind of just quit a little bit. I was like, 'I'm going to regret this forever. I have to try, I have to try.' I knew I was on that edge of dying, so I was like, 'I'm just going to go by her and just hope it breaks her will.' I was talking to some of the Nike guys and they were like, 'Oh, we wanted you to wait until 100 [meters to go],' but I knew that if I waited until 100, I might break. I was like, " don't want to regret this forever; I have to try.' So I just went for it.

Coming down the homestretch, I was just like, 'Please don't let anyone pass me!' I was trying so hard to sprint. My body was so tired and I didn't know what kind of a finish Kim would have or anyone. I just kept thinking someone could be there. When I crossed the line, I was just elated. And then there was a moment of, 'Did that really just happen?' [Laughs] And then they handed me the American flag and I was like, 'No, that really just happened.' It was just awesome.

And you went right into victory mode. You just took off.
Yeah, I was like, 'I'm doing this. I'm running a lap!' I was so tired, halfway through the victory lap, my arms were so tired, but I was like, 'I'm getting around.' It was actually really hard [laughs]. I was like, 'I'm soaking this in, for sure.'

On the fact that two of the most important races of her career—the World Championships in Osaka and the 2000 NCAA Cross Country Championships in Ames, Iowa—took place in such extremely opposite conditions:
I think obviously one of my talents as an athlete is to be able to tune things out and not let them bother me. I think a lot of times people want to obsess about something, kind of like a reason why things don't go well, and [ignoring it] is just one of my talents. Negative 19 degrees—or whatever it was when I won NCAAs—everyone was like, 'Oh, you just went back to you're roots.' Well I'm from Minnesota and I never ran in weather that cold. We don't do it, you just don't go out when it's that cold. But I just tuned it out and when the race was over, I was miserable, my fingers were frozen, but it's like, 'It's the same for everybody; I'm going to use it as an advantage. Let them panic about it, let them worry about it, and I'm just going to shut it out and do what I'm here to do.'

In the context of everything that's happened since that race in Ames, how does it feel to be able to say, 'Kara Goucher, bronze medalist, World Championships?'
It's amazing, and so much has happened since then to now. When I won in Ames, I was on top of the world and I thought I had this huge future, then it was four years of absolute frustration and just really difficult times. But obviously I have an amazing family and husband [Adam Goucher] who never gave up on me and refused to let me quit. I always joke that my family's crazy. They're like, 'Oh, we know you're going to go to the Olympics, we know you're going to get a medal,' and all this stuff. And I'm like, 'Guys. Do you know how hard that is?' But they just kept me going. I'm just really lucky to have the people I have in my life, they just never let me quit.

On what it's going to take to be able to kick with someone like Tirunesh Dibaba, who can run 50-something seconds for the final lap of a long race:
Well, I need to work on my speed, because I've never run a sub-60 quarter. But I think for me, last night, a lot of it was just believing. I was here on a mission to be in the top five; that was my goal. I was driven. Next time I won't think top five, I'll think differently. It's always a step, and as much as I've come along in the last year psychologically to think of myself as an elite and world class athlete, I still never dreamed of winning last night. So that's going to be something I really work on now. For me, I have to have steps. To think as big as I thought for last night was a really big step, but now I'm going to work on thinking bigger.

On her spontaneous celebration at the end of the race:
It's not just for me, either. Running around with that flag was for Adam. This sport is so hard. It's just like what you said—I've dedicated myself to it for so many years and the times where you get to have that feeling are very rare, but it's what keeps you going. I've dreamed of getting a medal at a championship, but to actually have it, you realize it's like totally different. It still doesn't seem real. Maybe tonight when I get it [laughs].

On the difference some of her supporters have made:
Adam has always been my biggest supporter. Even all those years when we weren't running well, he was still placing in the top three at nationals. He would always tell people, 'Kara's the good one,' and everyone would be like, 'Oh, that's cute, he supports his wife,' but he really, truly believed. Alberto has enabled me to really, really dream, and to not think it's foolish to dream. To not think like, 'Oh, maybe I could medal or I could go to the Olympics and be in the mix...Oh that's silly, I couldn't really do that.' He's enabled me to break that down and know that it's okay to think that way, and in fact I should be thinking that way. His goal is for us to win medals, and he's not afraid to say that. I think a lot of people scoff at that and they're like, 'Do you know how hard that is?' But he's like, 'No, that's the goal.' It's just changed our lives; we think so much bigger. He just takes down boundaries in our minds and limitations that were there before. Don't overanalyze everything and think realistically, and all the steps. Just dream and go for it.

Obviously you have to be fit and you have to do the work—I've trained so hard for this particular race—but anything is possible and we shouldn't limit ourselves.

On the good coaching and training opportunities she's had over the years:
I feel so lucky to be in the program that I'm in right now. I've been really lucky. In high school, I had an awesome coach, he kept it really fun, and that's why we had such a big team. In college, Mark [Wetmore] developed me so well. I came in there not very good, and he turned me into a three-time NCAA champion. That was his belief in me and his training that did that. Now, Alberto has enabled me to take it to a whole other level with all the ART chiropractic work, working with a sports psychologist, getting massage all the time, going to high altitude to train—things that I couldn't necessarily afford to do before I moved to Portland. Adam and I would have to budget those things in, and now it's just not an issue. It's enabled me to just become the best athlete I can be.

On how the move from Colorado to Portland, Oregon came about:
Adam and I were both struggling and it was just obvious we needed a change to anyone that saw our race results—it was sort of a steady decline. We kind of talked about it and at first we were just thinking of trying a different coach in the area, and then we said, 'You know what? We only have a few years to do this with our lives. Let's make the most of it.' We started talking to people and it came down to I was going to be coached by Peter Tegen and Adam by Jerry [Schumacher] in Wisconsin, or Portland. In the end, it really was a no-brainer, because of the injuries we had had. If we went to Wisconsin it would have been great coaching, new environment, I'm sure it would have been really fun. But in Portland we would have all of the doctors and all of the people to teach us, biomechanically, how to run again. We literally had to learn how to run again and heal our bodies.

Alberto was like, 'Just give me a six-month commitment.' We felt like, 'We're young, we only have so many years to do this, it's an adventure that we get to do together.' And it was really hard. It was really hard to say goodbye to Mark [Wetmore], he's been such a huge part of our lives and my sister lived there and Adam's entire family lived there, so it was really difficult. But we felt like, 'This is the gift we've been given and we have to do it, and we get to do it together. So, we did it.

On the fact that you hear a lot about the supplemental work being done by members of Goucher's group, but how it's inherently about logging the miles:
It is about logging the miles, but that's not what takes the most of my time. What takes the most of my time is all my drills, all my stretching, but I think that's why I've stayed healthy, because I'm addressing all these things that were weak on me before. I have been running 90 miles a week, which is the most I've ever run. So I am running a lot, but it's the aqua jogging to flush the legs, the 30 minutes of drills, the massage, driving down to meet my ART therapist—that stuff actually takes more time out of my day than the actual running.

On what a day in the life of Kara Goucher looks like:
Well, preparing for this, we were up in Park City. We would get up and have Power Bars and toast, and we'd head out for our first run, which is usually our longer, harder workout. We'll do that, and then we'll do about 30-45 minutes of drills, and then drive over to the weight room. We'd get back to our condo at about 1:00 and have lunch, then we would take a little nap. Then at about 5:00, we'd head back down, run again, do drills again, get massage again, usually. We would aqua jog in the afternoons as well, after our run. We usually wouldn't get back to the condo until about 8:30 or 9:00. We'd have some dinner, watch a movie, and go to bed. Then do it again.

It's almost more than a full time job.
It's a full-time job, it's all the time, but we're just thriving in it. There are days when I'm tired and I don't want to go aqua jog. Aqua jogging for 15 minutes makes me want to kill myself [laughs] and I have to be persuaded by Alberto to do it, but then I think, 'Kara, don't be stupid. This is such a great opportunity.' I mean yeah, there are days when I just don't want to do it, but for the most part I feel, even when I'm tired, that this is a blessing and an amazing opportunity, and this is what it takes. This is what it takes to compete with the best in the world. It's a full-time job and it's a full-time commitment. It's not just going out and running, it's everything.

Sometimes, in the back of your mind, you're wondering, 'What are the best in the world doing? Are they doing more?' Now you're kind of saying, 'Well I am doing everything.'
Yeah. I do feel like in the past, I ran really hard, I worked really hard, but I worked out for maybe three hours a day total, and that was it. And now, with everything I do, it's an absolute full day, but I've seen the results. This is what it takes, and I think to be one of the best in the world, it is a full-time commitment, and you have to live it, breathe it—that's what it is.

On her current training partners:
In Park City I was just running with Adam and Galen [Rupp], and Josh Rohatinsky. When we did track sessions, like one day, we all did 7 x mile, but then ended up doing 9 x mile, and they each would take one with me. In Portland, I actually run a lot of my easy days with my sister [Kendall Schoolmeester], and then Amy Yoder Begley has moved out—she's had a lot of injury issues, but we meet up when we can. In Portland I get a lot more help with workouts because Ahrlin Bauman and Julius Achon help me out. I get spoiled in Portland; I get a lot more help [laughs], I can just zone out. But in Park City, the guys were really great and they would each help me out. I did most of my running—my long runs and all my easy runs—by myself.

On being able to stay healthy despite running 90 miles per week, plus all the supplemental work:
Before I went to Park City, I was doing 85 miles a week, but 20-25 of it was on the Alter-G—on the anti-gravity treadmill. But when I got up to Park City, I just went straight into all running outside, but I think that's why we added all the pool stuff. I get really tired, but that's what happens. You have to do that, you have to train hard. So yeah, I've stayed healthy.

What does the pool do for you?
It's just therapeutic. I'm not in there running super hard. I'm in there for 15-30 minutes, depending on the day, and I'm just stretching my legs out, getting that water pressure, and just flushing everything. It's usually the last thing we do for the day, so we'll do all of our drills and weightlifting in the morning, and then another run and drills in the afternoon, and then we end with the pool.

What's a fairly easy or recovery day like for you?
An easy day...I would lift weights on my easy days, I do all my drills on my easy days, and I sometimes even go to the pool on my easy days, so it's just less mileage and the morning session isn't as hard. On my hard days, I'd do like 7 x mile or 12 x 1k, or whatever it is I'm doing. On my easy days, it's just like 8 [miles in the morning] and 3 [miles in the evening].

On what she does when she's not running or thinking about running:
This time of year I don't do anything. I nap and watch a movie, but I'm really boring, actually [laughter]. I'm very focused and I'm very driven; I've always been that way. And especially this time of year, when we're training so hard and these few weeks are what I've been training for all year. But one of the great things is that Adam's there with me, so it's always more fun than if I was just out there by myself all the time. We're always together and any time we have the time, we go to Colorado and visit his family or go to Minnesota and visit mine. I just really like to be around my family.

On Adam Goucher being at the finish line after she took her victory lap:
It was so awesome and I don't think it had really hit me yet; it still hasn't, really, but he was really emotional. It's funny, people ask us...like last year I had a really big breakthrough year and people would say, 'Oh, is it hard on Adam?' And Adam and I just think that's the most ridiculous question we've ever heard because for us, we're a team. When he got sixth at World Cross Country, I was like, 'Heck, yeah!' [Laughter] We're a team and we do everything together. He's just so happy for me and it's so great, because he honestly is the one person who kept me doing it.

Are you going to race in Europe after this at all?
Yup. I'm going to do a 3k in Rieti on the 9th [of September] and a 5k in Berlin on the 16th.

On how her bronze medal has changed her outlook for the future:
I just feel like I've always believed that anything is possible. The opportunity is there, you're prepared, you seize it. Adam and I talked about that for years, for years, long before we moved to Portland—you get in the best shape of your life, people mess up, there are certain conditions, and you're there and you're ready, you take that opportunity. Last night was just one of those chances and I was ready. It just makes me want to be even more ready. I'm not saying, 'I have to go and win a gold medal now. That will make me happy.' I just want to be ready, because opportunities are always there and I always want to be ready to seize them.

When we write about you for the next year, we'll be writing about you as the World Championship bronze medalist. Has that gotten into your head yet?
No. I didn't get out of drug testing until like 1:00 last night, then we ate dinner and it was 3:00 before we got back to the room. Right before we went to bed, I said, 'I need to see proof,' so Adam went on the computer and found a photo of me crossing the finish line and I was like, 'Oh, okay, okay.' And then I couldn't sleep. Then this morning I was like, 'Adam, Adam,' and he was like, 'What?' And I was like, 'Did I really get third?' And he was like, 'Yes, go on the computer.' So I went on the computer and I had to find another picture. Maybe when I get the medal tonight, then I'll actually have that. But it doesn't seem real.

Are you screwing up Adam's preparations for his race now? [Adam's preliminary race in the 5,000 is the evening of Thursday, August 30th.]
[Laughter] Yeah, I felt bad for him last night because it was basically an all-nighter, and he's like, 'Aw, man, now we have to go back to the track again tomorrow...' But we'll put him in bed tonight and he's going to basically have to just sleep for the next few days because last night took a lot out of him, even just emotionally, let alone the fact that he didn't get any sleep.

On whether she thought the weather would make it a strength 10,000 versus a speed 10,000, and whether she thinks Beijing will be similar:
You know, honestly, I think I'm ready to run really fast, so had it gone out fast, I still would have run the same way. I still would have gone for it. I definitely feel like obviously I handled the heat well, but [even though] I handled it well, I was still uncomfortable and miserable. I'll prepare the same way for next year, because the conditions will be very similar.

On the fast race she ran last year [31:17.12], which gave her confidence going into this year:
As of right now, I don't have an Olympic qualifier for next year, so I'm still going to be out there running. Last year was a big breakthrough for me as far as always believing I could be good but never really just doing it. So this year has been not so much about running fast times, it's been about preparing for last night and I ran USAs very conservatively and then I hit the training really hard. I stayed home while everyone came over and ran really fast in Europe. Alberto and I will definitely have to sit down and make a plan, but I think we'll do something similar next year where the focus is going to be the Olympics and whatever steps it takes to get me there, but that's all secondary to one big peak in Beijing.

If it had been cool, what can you run 10k in right now? What does your gut tell you?
I think I can run about 30:40.